Link the Destroyer said:
You just claimed that average Species 8472 weapons are near planet busting so try not to throw stones.
8 of them and a ship that's not THAT much bigger than them combine their power into a planet busting shot, yes. An 8472 ship being about 1% planet busting, perhaps as high as 10% of it, is NOT an unreasonable assumption. If uncombined beams are much less than that, say 0.01%, why bother ever having the beams be on separate ships instead of combined into one beam ship from the get go a la the death star? MAYBE better use of their singularity cross universal transport?
As i said: best measured in % of planetbusting. I don't live in a glass house here. Yo're the one who thought "the borg were weak to 8472" was a good argument in favor of the iom. It's not. It's a terrible one: surviving that is the borg's best feat. Hell they don't even all survive the planet blowing up, but you want to trash talk them because of their interactions with the weapon itself???
So yeah. No. Look at your broken window and admit your initial argument was and remains awful.
...I suppose you COULD get lower by assuming that they're alchemically inducing energy positive iron-iron fusion, wouldn't even be the weirdest alchemy star trek has done, but they ARE still knocking some ejecta off the planet at high speeds with the initial drill operation, so there's still some pretty high energy yield to be found, though I CANNOT be arsed to calc it right now.
Link the Destroyer said:
Yes. That's actually better. I can WORK with that, if begrudgingly.
Because here's the thing: the borg don't NEED to come up with particularly clever tactics to be terrifyingly effective against the imperium. Even against a ready to go 30k crusade on a good day with good calc advantage, the borg won't go down easy.
The thing is...the borg have a substantial OODA loop advantage.
The first thing is...a lot of the time, the imperium has distinctly C and Sub-C scanning. Sure, some FTL scanners...exist. Here and there. Perhaps maintaned by an unusually gifted magos...but regardless of why that ONE magos could make them out of parts lying around, they're clearly not standard issue. There's a ton of rather critical events that would go differently if the imperium had good ftl scanning, or a similar tech, non astropathic ftl comms. Such might exist, but they're clearly too rare to give one to each primarch. The heresy would be very different if magnus called his dad on a quantum phone instead of using warp talk.
The borg can just use subspace for nigh instant messaging, no need to wait for astropaths.
The second big thing...is that whenever they go into a star system the imperium is at high risk of being completely unable to leave it for hours. Perhaps even days or weeks, in extreme cases. Quirk of Warp travel, most star systems aren't safe to jump out of until you're past the mandeville point. A few exceptions exist, because, well, its temhe Warp, but generally even chaos ships can't just leave a system if something is going badly.
Its a pretty nasty weakness for the iom to have against someone big enough to actually taie advantage of it.
Too many ships in one star system, and the borg can catch them with a superweapon. We know the borg can build superbombs that can vaguely blast a star system, we just don't have exact specs cause isotons aren't linear.
Too FEW ships, and the borg can doomstack that group of ships. And those ships are trapped...for HOURS.
All the borg have to do is follow their mo of hitting a foe where its weak or resorting to overwhelming explosions if its strong everywhere.
Link the Destroyer said:
how Warp powers just aren't something the Borg know how to deal with
Bullsh*t. They know damn well how to deal with warplike sh*t. They live in f*cking star trek.
Welcome to the imperiums dark age of technology. This place is a death galaxy full of eldritch horrors just as surely as 40k is. Sure, most of the big guns are less hostile or even friendly...but theres definitely enough hostile ones out there. If you can't deal with them, you eventually die to them.
Now, our direct info on borg/eldritch entity encounters is pretty limited. Mostly its that time a q (beyond 99 percent of the actual showings of the chaos gods) toyed with them...and that time a mostly offline borg cube got alarmingly close to assimilating tendi, a medusan (and for the life of me I haven't been able to find that clip again) Medusans, notably, are the ones that drive humans who look at them INSANE.
Doesn't exactly narrow things down, does it? But thats ok, we can get a good idea of what the borg deal with from what the federation deals with.
The federation encounters a staggering variety of eldritch gribblies. One demon like being stepped a liiiitle bit out of time to avoid their weapons. They had to overwhelm that one with brute force, something loke all their torpedos at once.
Another warped reality across their ship, empowered by violence and resurrecting them until they deduced its memetic weakness, laughter, and banished it.
Another one possessed the ship and they deduced a way to drive it out of the ship.
Kirk fought with a sorcerer type entity, an eldritch being who became obsessed with sensation upon entering our universe. Broke her staff and she was swiftly unraveled/banished.
Said entity took a model of the enterprise, held it over a flame, and began heating the enterprise up.
Janeway once kicked a demon out of her head in coda.
"Go back to hell, coward"(portal turns red)
The macrophage is a f*cking nurgle virus by a different name. That thing laughs at conservation of mass. Exits host then grows into a giant flying virus. Janeway and crew cured it.
The federation can respond to insanity inducing psychically powerful energy beings (cough friendly demons) by building a filter to let them look at them without the insanity. Early versions of the filter required a telepath to use safely. By the time of the aforementioned tendi incident, the medusams can go around in suits with a tinted visor to freely interact with people without issues.
Theres a nebula living entitt that's basically living lightning.
Viral water. Which shouldn't be a thing but IS. (Naked now).
Salt vampires. They can pretend to be someone you love (if porly) and devour all the salt from your body.
The borg are psychically capable enough to use psychic energies as part of regenerating mschines-its not just nanites and replicators. They can transfer spare energy to an individual to beal them. This does not even require a full set of implants, either. The cooperative was able to heal.chakitay with a small group of people and a psychic amplfier you stick on your head. Which they built while low on supplies.
So. The borg can deal with psychic magical shennanigans in their own way or theyd never have lasted all that long in this f*cking death galaxy.
The borg can assimilate iom trchnilogy, and as far as im concerned that is thr END of that particular discussion. Im tired of pandering to this f*cking "but muh muchine spieits" argument. Kindly do not protest further, just admit your argument is terrible or be told youre ignoring evidence.
Are you done making terrible arguments yet? Got any more "look at me im willfully ignorant of basic star trek knowledge!"? Tier bs?
